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I'm Becc Holland, Head of Sales Dev @Chorus.ai & owner of Flip the Script, Ask me anything!

Hey Sales Hackers! I'm Becc and I will be answering ANY & ALL questions on June 5, 2020 @ 1PM ET for 1 Hour. Ask me anything related to cold outreach (Cold Calls, Emails etc.) OR anything related to making a unicorn process (Closing the gap between Marketing & SDR, SDR & AEs, KPI Systems for SDR or How to Personalize Messaging at Scale!). Anybody have any questions I can answer? πŸ™‚

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    • Profile picture of Macky Bradley
      @mackybradley
      ( 3.9k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      This is awesome @becc-holland Becc! I am looking forward to this! Can’t wait till June 5th!

      Thank you,

      Macky

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Hi @mackybradley – How are you??! I’m here LIVE on the line for the next hour! Hope you’re well.

    • Profile picture of Joe Latchaw
      @jlatchaw85
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      In your experience, what is a fundamental first step in aligning Marketing and Sales teams?

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Hi @jlatchaw85 – Great question! First step to me would be redefining ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) to mean two things, ICC (Ideal Customer Company) & ICT (Ideal Customer Title). Meaning you want to make sure the “leads” that you are bringing in through content downloads, webinars etc. are people your sales reps want to sell into.

        Second step would be to only create an MQL (Marketing Qualified Lead) when a lead hits ICT (meaning they’re the right title), ICC (meaning they’re the right company), they AREN’T already a currently a customer, and they AREN’T currently in a sales cycle with your AEs. This means that the “MQLs” that you are creating are a true representative pool of people and companies that you WANT to sell into, that you haven’t already or aren’t currently (which gives you a good feel for what your marketing efforts from a lead generation perspective are really giving your sales reps to work with).

        Third step would be to give your marketing team a variable comp, and base the marketing comp & measure of success on two KPIs:
        1. 25% on amount of people that attended webinars, downloaded content etc. REGARDLESS of lead quality, so you measure and incentivize for brand awareness.
        2. 75% on amount of new MQLs (with the definition of an MQL is someone that you WANT to sell into based on title and company qualification, haven’t already, and aren’t currently selling into).

        This puts marketing in the “fire” so to speak where they are after and payed for quality of leads, not only quantity.

        For more info, I did a whole session with Saleshacker on the topic which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80AhX1LgVoQ&t=1150s.

        Hope this helps!

        • Profile picture of Macky Bradley
          @mackybradley
          ( 3.9k POINTS )
          1 month ago

          I love the way that you take your responses to the next level, you can tell this is something that you live and breathe by, just not a canned response. Thanks for the awesome responses and feedback @becc-holland

    • Profile picture of drew.coryer
      @drew-coryer
      ( 1.5k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey Becc, you have a solid insight and understanding of the SDR world and I’m curious about how you approach different buyer personas within the same vertical. For example, our org is focused on selling to multiple departments within those companies, so how do you change the messaging to connect with the HR, IT, Ops, marketing, etc… and speak the language what makes them want to evaluate our product as a solution?… And have be able to scale as we grow.

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Hi @drew-coryer – Good question!

        I mean, they’re all different buyers. Meaning your messaging should be entirely different for each one of them from my perspective based on what they care about, are measured on, run into from a pain perspective.

        I would be very focused on who has bought my product in the past (from a buyer persona perspective) and call them and ask them why they bought your product. I would also poll current people in that role on what their day to day is like, so you can enter into the mindset of the end buyer, and speak to how you can help each specific persona do better within their role.

        What headache can you decrease, efficiency can you increase, pain can you help them avoid etc.

        For example, at Chorus, if I’m talking to a:
        1. VP of Sales – I’m talking all about how I can help them hit more quota… because that’s what they care about.
        2. SDR Leader: I’m talking about how I can help them book more meetings… because that’s what they care about!
        3. Sales Ops Leader: How I can give them clean, accurate, and seamless data on what is going on during sales calls with the AEs, so they can help forecast better… without having to bug & prod AEs to “update the CRM”.

        All very different buyers – So I would just think through each role as stand alone, and pivot your messaging accordingly to what they care about in their day to day and how you can help them be a rockstar in their day.

    • Profile picture of jakebernstein21
      @jakebernstein21
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Becc – I remember part of your FTS talk in Chicago when you tested having your reps do 20 calls and 10 emails totally personalized as a basis to improve results (and it worked!). How do you balance quantity and quality of touches and how does that tie into how much target accounts a rep (SDR or AE) should have on a regular (e.g., quarterly) basis?

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Great question @jakebernstein21!

        As far as accounts, it’s my belief that nobody can call on more than 150 accounts, 200 absolute max, when they’re calling on them well. Typically, if a company has in the range of 3 buyer personas, they will end up with 5-6 buyers at an SMB company, 20 at a midmarket, 50+ at enterprise, and 200+ at strategic accounts Let’s take the lowest common denominator, and say every account is SMB: So 6 X 150= 900 people. NINE HUNDRED people to get to know, research, be relevant to, and ultimately book. I just don’t believe that a human has bandwidth to know/care about any more accounts that 900.

        Typically they want more accounts because it:
        1. Increases the chance that they will get an inbound from that account.
        2. Increases the chance that when they spray and pray, they can get someone to respond.

        Works out in theory, but a terrible experience for your buyer, at least from what I’ve seen πŸ™‚

        Balancing quantity and quality:

        Industry average for quantity is defined as 52 dials per day (per BridgeGroup’s report) – so let’s take that as “quantity” or scale. It takes my reps 5 minutes to search out 3 personalized premises for a contact, that will fuel the entire sequence of 16 steps over 21 days. You can find the video on how to do that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNaqLxmmWQ&list=PL0GIrLojjBzuLs0cHjK57H7e8TshU7N0D&index=14

        They actually are matching industry activity average for if they were mass blasting… even with personalized messaging! πŸ™‚

        They’re sending 25 100% tailored emails, and making 50 dials per day to answer your question, and their average positive response rate hovers anywhere from 15% on the low end to 24% on the high end.

        Not sure if I answered the question, but hope this helps!

        • Profile picture of jakebernstein21
          @jakebernstein21
          ( 0 POINTS )
          1 month ago

          This is great, Becc. I took your 16-step/21-day sequence after I saw you speak – TY! Overall, it’s going well. Need to teach our reps how find/use premises more consistently, so that’s next on my list.

          I think quick wins will be that, and scaling up dials (+20 more a day) and maybe increasing our Target Accounts by a bit too. Thanks again!

    • Profile picture of Camille Garcia
      @moment2moment
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      How do you conduct mindful prospecting/outreach in the midst of social unrest?

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        I would say we did five things to keep our numbers up with everything going on:
        1. Pivot your messaging to your buyers new reality. For example, the reps over at Chorus pre COVID were talking about how we could make your sellers better. During COVID, we’re talking all about how Chorus can help you sell better remotely, because that’s where most of buyers are now – That’s their new reality that they’re trying to get used to.
        2. Multithread to the CFO for deals in cycle – Because budgets are rolling back, your new buyer in my opinion (regardless of who you typically sell into) is a CFO.. because they are prioritizing software spend. So I would at minimum equip your typical DM with collateral, talk tracks etc. on how to “sell you” internally to the CFO and ideal state, I would want a meeting with the CFO if they’ll give me one.
        3. Do what I call the “push pull” method in your outreach. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk8BMM8tbeI&list=PL0GIrLojjBzuLs0cHjK57H7e8TshU7N0D&index=20
        But the long in the short of it is you don’t want to mention COVID in your first line, especially with fake empathy (Hope you are well during these uncertain times..) because best case scenario people think you’re in-genuine, and worse case scenario they think you’re monetizing a pandemic if you mention it right off the bat. BUT if you don’t mention COVID at all… they think you’re tone-deaf. So I would mention…after your CTA (in the last line of the email) that “Either way, keep the good stuff coming, and hope you’re safe & sane with everything going on the world”. You’re looking to strike balance, but I go deeper into it in the video!
        4. Take out SEVERELY affected industries (events, restaurants etc.) and just nurture them for now.
        5. Know that your prospects objections have higher likelihood than ever for being real. Normally, at least in my experience, there are a lot of “false objections”: Send me an email, no time, in the middle of a meeting etc… Where they are saying something to get you off the phone, but don’t want to feel like a bad person so they give you false reasoning (Think… “I have to wash my hair”). But during the pandemic, I would be cogniscant of the fact that objections are more REAL than ever. (Budget cuts, layoffs, uncertainty, hiring freezes etc.).

        Doesn’t mean don’t sell… nobody can/should do that. Just means be respectful, aware, personalized, helpful and relevant.

        I think the words I’m looking for are “Be brief. Be brilliant. And be gone.”

    • Profile picture of AJ Alonzo
      @ajalonzo
      ( 1.8k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey @beccholland! Thanks for doing this.

      I saw a system you put together on a webinar a while back (can’t remember the title 😬) where SDRs get “points” based on how qualified their meeting is. Can you dive into that a bit more? I think it’s a great idea.

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Absolutely @ajalonzo!

        I typically give more and less credit for the level of role for the title of the person who the initial meeting is with.
        For Chorus, Manager = 1 pt Director = 1.5 pts & VP or CXO = 2 pts.
        And this is the same for all of the respective disciplines of who fit buyer persona (Sales Enablement, SDR, Sales, Sales Ops & Revenue)

        If your team IS segmented, I would give higher point values for quota for SMB, little less for MM, and the lowest quota for enterprise. (based on the assumption that enterprise is harder to book than MM & SMB)

        So for example, you could do 25 points needed for an SMB SDR, 15 for a MM SDR, and 10 for an Enterprise SDR – But the hierarchy of what titles are worth stays the same across all segments.

        If you are NOT segmented, I would create a 3 X 3 grid (think of a tic tac toe grid). Where the X a-xis has brackets of size of company or something that dictates the “salivation level” and size of opportunity of the company. (For example first column would be 20-50 reps, second column is 50-200 sales reps, and third column is 200+ sales reps) so you’re accessing and comping for the size of company.

        The Y-Axis should be level of title for the meeting within the respective disciplines of buyer persona. The lowest row would be manager at Chorus, middle row is directors, and VP and CXO would be the highest.

        The assign higher and lower point values for the higher and to the right that SDRs book.

        So you could do:
        Manager at 20-50 rep company = 1 pt
        Director at 20-50 rep company = 1.5
        VP at 20 -50 rep company= 2

        Manager at 50 -200 rep company = 2 pts
        Director at 50-200 rep company = 3 pts
        VP at 50 – 200 rep company = 4 pts

        Manager at 200+ rep company = 3 pts
        Director at 200+ rep company = 4.5 pts
        VP at 200+ rep company = 6pts

        You can change around the different associated points, level of titles, or criteria for what makes a good company… but you get the idea!

        Hope this is helpful πŸ™‚

        • Profile picture of AJ Alonzo
          @ajalonzo
          ( 1.8k POINTS )
          1 month ago

          Helpful? @beccholland, this is amazing. Thank you so much for the detailed explanation!

    • Profile picture of Phil Gerbyshak
      @phil-gerbyshak
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      I’d love to hear your thoughts on using video in the sales funnel. When to use it. How to use it. And how to show the ROI of it to your sales leaders – before you get started using it.

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        @phil-gerbyshak I hate for this to be my answer….(and especially on record)……but the reps over here don’t use video. **in comes 18 billion connection requests and cold emails from video providers πŸ™‚

        Doesn’t mean I think it can’t be leveraged, or leveraged well… It’s just not really my style.

        Sorry I can’t be of more help!

      • Profile picture of Michael Sabat
        @sabatoge
        ( 0 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        Hi Phil,
        I don’t mean to man-splain and I’m obviously not Becc, but I’ve been doing and thinking a lot about video over the last few days. Make it Happen Mondays Episode #150 (this week’s) was all about using video for prospecting and in the pipeline. Worth a listen.

        I’m currently testing BombBomb and Vidyard. Feel free to message me directly if you want my thoughts.

        Here’s the podcast
        https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/make-it-happen-mondays-b2b-sales-talk-with-john-barrows/id1265697819

    • Profile picture of oleh chelombitko
      @avs
      ( 530 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      what’s the best cold outreach message to fit them all?

      • Profile picture of Becc Holland
        @beccholland
        ( 500 POINTS )
        1 month ago

        @avs An email where the subject line is **Free puppies – Click Below….

        And the body of the email says “Jk about the puppies… Want to buy my software instead?”

        Kidding πŸ™‚

        On a more serious note, here’s a video I did on how to write personalized messaging to hook more buyers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1qwAY5GOe8&list=PL0GIrLojjBzuLs0cHjK57H7e8TshU7N0D&index=4

        Bad news is, my annoying answer is… there are no silver bullets. Just like you can’t lose 50 pounds by taking a pill, quality cold outreach takes commitment to the craft, practice and grit.

        Good news is… that’s what makes sales so good. πŸ™‚

    • Profile picture of Nick Turnbull
      @nturnbull
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc

      What fun things are you doing to keep the team engaged while working remote? The MTV Cribs tours, weekly virtual happy hours and trivia can only go so far.

      What are you doing in daily huddles? I have been running those every morning for the past 8 weeks and debating giving an opportunity for Sr SDRs to run one or two a week. Rather than going through goals have them discuss a topic that happened the day before (Objection, An Account won, etc)

    • Profile picture of Olivier Tytgat
      @olivier-salesenabler
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      I’m currently using the RRR mail template and SPICED method in order to raise interest and to qualify. But I’m a startup that is still looking to find product-marketfit in the very crowded landscape of sales software. Could you share best practices in order to write concise and concrete emails and do calls to raise urgency?

    • Profile picture of Colin Campbell
      @colin-campbell
      ( 2.1k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Personalization at scale has felt like a fad that’s turning into a real trend that’s shaping the future of sales. New roles and technologies are being built for it.

      Let’s imagine we take that as far as it can go. What do you think is the next big trend shaping the future of sales?

    • Profile picture of sander
      @sander
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      How do you feel about cold calls, should they be the first step in a sequence? Should they be included at all in a sequence? How can cold calls be as effective as possible? When should they be included and when should they not be included in a sequence? We use Outreach, but this could be applicable to any sales engagement platform. Thanks!

    • Profile picture of Alex Khaliq
      @alexkhaliq
      ( 850 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      HI Becc! Thanks for doing this. A hypothetical question coming your way:

      If you were going to start a new company with a new sales team from the ground up, which tools and technologies would be the most important to arm your reps with?

    • Profile picture of briantroxell
      @briantroxell
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Becc,

      What are your thoughts on a quick pitch for cold calls that truly answers the questions “what do you do” and “how do you do it”?

      Obviously, messaging needs to start with how you help and the problems you solve, but everyone has experienced those prospects that just want to know the what and how. Curious to hear your perspective here.

      Thanks!

      P.S. – Love call the content you’ve been putting out. Especially the Flip the Script videos! Keep it coming!

    • Profile picture of John Moon
      @johnmoon
      ( 770 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      What do you see as the second biggest tech gap in sales orgs? (The first being a conversation intelligence platform, perhaps 😄)

    • Profile picture of Lauren Wadsworth
      @lauren-wadsworth
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Do you have your SDRs personalize their outreach to high intent inbound leads?

      What conversion rates do you aim for call-to-connect rate, and connect-to-meeting rate over the phone? Thanks!

      Lauren

    • Profile picture of Parv
      @parv
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Would love to understand how you go about personalization at scale? What percentage is personalized versus not. And what kind of personalization, for example, is it persona, vertical or hyper-personalized to the prospect?

    • Profile picture of Brooklin Nash
      @bnash
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Thanks for this, Becc! I’m the 2nd hire at Wiza.co – founder, sales rep, then me (the marketer). What’s your recommendation for ONE thing I can do for the remainder of 2019 that will have the biggest impact on the sales team as we build it up?

    • Profile picture of Ruby Mehta
      @ruby-mehta
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey Becc- Can you talk a little bit about Sales KPIs for AEs? and SLA to measure these KPIs. Any best practice or standardization around KPIs?

    • Profile picture of gavin taylor
      @gtglobal
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc,

      nice to meet you!

      How do we update all our salesforce account records with the correct Naics code automatically?

    • Profile picture of Peter Holland
      @peterholland
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc

      I’m interested in hearing your ideas to automate workflow and personalise messaging at scale. Where an organisation has new contact details entering from different platforms, crm, social media, Mailchimp etc and want to avoid duplicative workload and keep data clean easily?

    • Profile picture of marygreencny
      @marygreencny
      ( 2k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc I have two questions from our members on social media:

      What metric are you optimizing for most right now at work? In your personal life?

      Phil Gerbyshak: When should I insert video into my sales process?

    • Profile picture of Remco Frijling
      @remco
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey Becc, greetings from Holland 🇳🇱 🧀😷🔆 I have seen you mention a sequence before for outreach for SDRs etc to the right ideal customer company and ideal customer contacts, etc. What are good sources to get correct emails, phone numbers to do cold outreach, and what is the ideal mix of outreach channels? Such as 1. email 2. Inmail. 3. Call 4. Call. 5. Whatsapp 6. call etc? Met vriendelijke groet/be well, Remco

    • Profile picture of James Dougal
      @seamusmacd
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Um, where?

    • Profile picture of Macky Bradley
      @mackybradley
      ( 3.9k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey @becc-holland Greetings again! What is Flip The Script? Can you elaborate on this?

      Thanks Becc!

    • Profile picture of Kara Brothers
      @karabro
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc! What would you say are the three points to address in a cold email? How creative/ fun do you think is appropriate? (Ex. emojis, gifs, etc.

    • Profile picture of Walker Thaning
      @walkert09
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      When working with C level management have you found it more effective to cold call or send a cold email first?

    • Profile picture of Jason Tissera
      @jasonahp
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hey @beccholland, pleased to meet you virtually.

      What are some strategies for personalizing messaging at scale for SDRs? If you can detail the difficulties and roadblocks of doing it, and how you’re doing it today, that would be very insightful. Thank you!

    • Profile picture of Michael Sabat
      @sabatoge
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi @becc-holland

      What’s the relationship between your job at Chorus and Flip the Script? Is that a side hustle, personal branding or a project growing out of your job?

    • Profile picture of Jay Miller
      @jay-in-sf
      ( 0 POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Hi Becc,

      In your FTS on emailing, you mention the “threading” of email. (I think you called it “threading”…?) Anyway, I’m not quite clear on how that would work. Would I be, in essence, replying to my own outbound email in some form or fashion, like maybe forwarding the initial email on to my prospect again?

      Thanks,

      Jay

    • Profile picture of Macky Bradley
      @mackybradley
      ( 3.9k POINTS )
      1 month ago

      Wow, THANK YOU @becc-holland for all of your time and your excellent responses to our questions! As always, huge takeaways and tremendous knowledge!

      Cheers!

      Macky

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